Yellowbook Positioning Failure
One of the interesting things about running my own business and actually having a physical office presence is having people come in and try to sell me things, most of them do not make it past my operations guy extraordinaire who does a great job of filtering people asking for something. Recently we had 2 different "Yellowpage" companies coming through on successive days. Although one of them figured out pretty quick what we did as a company and did not work to hard to sell us the Yellowbook people actually scheduled a time to come back. I actually thought this would be an interesting conversation to see how they positioned their product and how they were dealing with the rapid decline of usage of the print yellowpage phonebooks.
As most domain investors know local search is a very fast growing sector of search engine usage. It is pretty obvious that a good portion of the people using local search either through their PC/laptop or mobile phones are the same people no longer using their print phone books. Knowing all this I was truly interested to hear how the sales people from an industry with their current challenges would position around this.
After getting over the initial laughing at the fact I am basically a competitor in some facets, they started to discuss their story. One of the first things I noticed was the conflicting story they were giving. Basically they were telling me the print side was not dying but in the next sentence they would talk about how they are spending hundreds of millions of dollars marketing their web based directory and services. As a buyer the first thing that I would be concerned about, even if I was not in this industry, is that you are trying to get me to spend the majority of my dollars with you on a product that you are not promoting yourselves.
The next thing, after getting to know the people a bit better is learning that the "junior" person in the room was actually the person that knows "new media" and is their to support the "senior" person. In otherwords they have figured out that customers are getting more savvy about their online marketing spend and social networking usage and they have a "sales engineer" type person to help support the legacy account managers (can I say old school account managers). From talking to them this is a fairly new model for them. I think its great for them that they get the shift but when they are spending 80 percent of their time focused on selling the old school print phonebook ad and then telling me they have invested in resources (people) and marketing to drive their online business it tells me they still do not quite have it right.
Now, I must say I do have a bit of history and even before starting an online media company I was more than a little bias against print Yellowpage/Yellowbook delivery. I had worked with the people at Big River Telephone in the past as they helped their President's son launch YellowPagesGoesGreen.org. The site focused on allowing people to submit their information so that they no longer received the print Yellowpages from their area, local edition or the big players. I had helped them with their grassroots marketing efforts and was pleased when after less than a year the site had 147,000 sign ups and had been featured in Readers Digest, LifeHacker.com, along with many others. Oh yeah all with NO paid advertising.
A last little side note to the story, I recently heard from 2 different customer prospects that the one of the local yellowbook sales people are telling them that Missouri.me is advertising in yellowbook to get all their traffic. Well, that is funny for a couple reasons 1) We have spent zero dollars with either major Yellowpage company and 2) Are they that afraid that a new company in the area could hurt them that they have to try to bash us.
In reality they have an online ad package that would be interesting to us. Is it wrong to advertise your business even if you are in advertising. Hmmmm. I am pretty sure they talked about spending hundreds of million advertising their online presence. I did call the online media specialist on the their team and called them out on it. He was to do some "research" and I look forward to hearing what he comes back with. I guess its a compliment, looks like they are paying attention to a new upstart in the area.
Working in the sales end of Yellow Pages since 2001 I have a good perspective of the HUGE decline of print Y.P.
In 1997 – 8 of 10 adults in the USA used yellow pages on a weekly basis.
In early 2009 ONLY 1 of 10 folks aged between 18 – 80 still use the printed phone book!
Many of the companies left who only rely on printed books are close to bankruptcy!
Also a lot of ads and phone numbers are disconnected . That is why “smart phones” are more reliable and easier to use since their data is much more up to date.
Hi,
I might just ad, usage of yellowpages, whether it be Yellowbook or any other is really related to the area. In my local area, yellowpages are vital. There are many areas without cell or broadband coverage and yellowpages is the only search method available short of yelling next door to ask a neighbor or phoning a friend.
Yellowbook is actually quite smart and began diversifying their product options many years ago with their first online property in 1992. Recently Yellowbook was awarded by Google a prestegious award for operations and servicing of customer online advertising.
So, don’t sell the Yellowbook Media Consultant short. Even large competitors advertising both in print and online. I know because I’ve sold them some of their ads!
Good luck btw with your company, love the missouri.me name! : )
@Jack Thanks, your comment says it all really.
@Lisa, understood on your comment about some areas relying on the yellowpages. I live in a rather rural area and the Missouri.me launch has really focused on those type of communities. With the push for rural broadband (7.2 billion dollars being spent) the yellowpages are going to be in trouble even in those rural areas. Its a long process to get those areas online but their Internet usage will change as they move away from dial access and onto high speed. Local search will drive people in those communities away from print as well. That said, I do understand there will always be a certain percentage of people who never move away from the print version of the book. But that is quickly becoming the minority rather than the majority.
Actually, I would like to recruit the media consultant away from Yellowbook, the people they are putting in those jobs are the exact people I want to hire:)
I appreciate the nice comment on Missouri.me, thanks very much! We have 24 more states coming soon:)
Interesting article. However, 1 thing that you failed to mention is Yellowbooks offer to make your program “tranparent” with their call and voice tracker. As a sign shop owner-I was under the same falsities as Jack. But, as a long time, sucessful print I advertiser-wanted to test it before I experimented with my families earnings. I’m pretty sure that this feature is something that they offer to everyone. It cost something like $15 per month and it showed me who called, what time, how long, how many rings and now even has a feature that record the calls. It is truly incredible!! It also has shown me just how valuable the print book (which I NEVER use) still is. Even though I no longer use it, plenty of buyers still do proving reality has not caught up to perception. Before you gamble your business away (any buy something with Jack) test it!
Meant to say “Bruce” instead of “Jack.” Sorry Bruce
Will the .tel replace Y.P?
@nSathees Short answer, no .Tel will not replace Y.P.
@Lesley Are you saying that its not possible to be transparent with online advertising? Are you also saying you are gambling your business away buying something with myself or online advertising in general? Not sure what you meant there.
Either way, we have more than one customer already calling us letting us know that due to our work with them they no longer feel they need to spend the THOUSANDS of dollars they spent with the YP before. Oh yeah, and they have the ability to track statistics if wanted.
I would be curious to know how buying advertising somewhere other than the YP is gambling your business away if that is what you meant. If not sorry for misunderstanding.
This is a great website to find friends and family
PeopleSearches.com
What Lesley mentioned is correct. At YB, all calls from the print media, IYP or even AdWords on both Google and Yahoo networks can be tracked and the calls can even be recorded, all in live time. I just listened to one call for one of my customers this past week and the sale made was $4500 or more. YB advertising is totally transparent, trackable and measurable. In an era when business owners are watching every dollar spent more carefully, the YP is the one and only place that when a user of the book, no matter what brand, picks it up, he/she is 9 times out of 10 looking to spend money and if the business is not advertising there, they are assured of NOT getting the call.
Say what you will, yellow pages are not dead and the numbers are proving it not only in my rural market but all over America. The call tracking proves it. When a salvage yard in San Antonio gets 33,000 calls in one year from their ad you cannot tell me that yellow pages are dead! This is a myth perpetuated by marketing companies who are trying to transition more dollars to paying them to advertise rather than a true media company.
I love search and I am a certified Google AdWords specialist so I know the value and all that goes with it but if you as a marketing professional are advising your clients to pull out of yellow pages, again regardless of brand, you are giving them poor advice. Their advertising dollars must be diversified and depending on the business model and the area, all avenues must be considered and none left out.
Also, to address the comments regarding the push for broadband to rural markets. Ever hear of the phrase, “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”? Well, you can put broadband all across America and that doesn’t mean that everyone wants to use it because they don’t. I know hundreds, maybe thousands of local business owners who still do not have a computer, and some who have a cell that is only for calls. They only have it because a wife, husband or employer makes them carry it. So, if you are relying on the government to get broadband to the masses and that will help your business with a web presence, let me know and I’ll inform your competition. Rural folks couldn’t give a rat’s behind about broadband and mention the word “blog” and watch the deer in the headlights look. I live here, I deal with it every day. When I ask someone just to hear the response if they are on Twitter, I get “What’s a twitter?” : )
Anyhow, nice little discussion you got going.
Lisa
@Lisa
First off thanks for the well thought out comment. It truly is appreciated.
I really do not tell customers to buy or not buy anyone elses product. My goal is to help them transition to a solution that includes local search and online advertising as part of their marketing plans. Although when I have customers call me and let me know that they are no longer going to purchase their enhanced yellowpages ad based on the response they have had from our work I will not argue with them.
Concerning rural broadband, I have lived in a rural area all my life, although I have traveled all over the place my roots are here and I know the rural market well, to top that off I have sold to independent rural telcos for 10 years and know the effort and work going into deploying rural broadband across various areas of the US. I know the market well and my business partner is someone who has ran 2 small businesses in a town of 1400 people, we know the market.
Although I will not disagree that many small business owners do not care about things such as Twitter and Facebook, I would completely disagree with the fact they will never care about the Internet in general. With the proper positioning they get it, and understand that even though they may not be the “power users” many of their customers with the disposable income are users and they use search to find services and products on a daily basis.
I am out with these people daily, the biggest mistake people can make is making it technical, this is about helping their business presence show up online. We have multiple customers who do not have a computer in their office, but they do have a phone which does ring from calls they get from the success we have had working with them.
Lisa, I appreciate the comments, it would be tough for me to ever agree that the yellowpage print media side is not shrinking rapidly. I have heard and witnessed it too many times not to know its happening, that said there are still people that will use it as long as it is available (my wife laughs because her Mom still keeps a stack of them).
Thanks much!
Hi,
I pay to be in Yellowbook. My rep came in last year and sold me a tracking number for my business. The results were good. I received more calls than promised or I thought i would. He also used a call record feature so i can listen to the call i had received. At first I thought it was a waste, but after hearing some of the calls coming through it was great to see what type of leads and people were calling using the yellowbook.
With the decline on print I still saw a excellent return for my investment, and was happy with yellowbook. I have done the SEO, and the pay per click. The traffic is good, but there are not that many buyers on the web. Too many shopers. You can always find a lower price somewhere else.
I hate to disagree with you because you make some valid points, but I still show people using the yellowbook, and I have yet to find another advertising source that give me the same return.
I hate the stack of books too. I guess it is a necessary evil to businesses.
Thanks
Bob
@Bob
Maybe I did not articulate my point clearly, I was not necessarily saying someone should not use the yellowpages at all, there are still a subset of people using them, but there is without a doubt less people using them today than 2 years ago. My point in the post was, and specifically with Yellowbook, they come in pitching how much money they are spending on promoting their web brand, but then focus on selling their more expensive print options.
People need to look at their online presence (SEO, PPC, etc, etc) and their print advertising (Yellowpages) , not just one or the other. Over the next few years if they think all they need to do is focus on the Yellowpages then people will be missing business they could of had. We hear from our customers almost daily that they are getting calls that they have never had before and would not of had. Its based on their online presence, they still have their yellowpage ad but that is not their only medium to draw people looking for businesses now.
Bruce
There is a huge difference in what is considered use of this or use of that…(and I get what your point was about the YB sales call) Let me be clear, I have been in the YP industry 25 years. worked in 4 publishing groups, 2 independents (including YellowBook) and 2 Telco publishers along with stints in Japan and Peru. I have conculted with South Africa, Germany, Poland, UK, Canada and France. I currently am a director of sales for 50 sales reps of a telco publisher. My territory covers 3 states. Big city, little, metro, rual. What we are seeing is a decline in the overall usage of the print phone book, but we are NOT seeing an overall decline in te ROI of the customer’s investment. The ROI of a YP ad 10 years ago was astronomical..through the roof. Now its just great..not astronomical. What people tend to forget is that there are millions of very, very smart business people that track calls and do research and these businesses still invest heavily in the Print YP product. In fact renewal rates in my area are still in the 80% range. We have more problems with bad pay than we do with out and out defections. Yellow Book will track nearly 37,000 ads this year. Overall the industry will track, measure and monitor via a third party over 85.000 lines. What we do see are two interesting trends…we are finding that almost 40% of calls to a business person are actually via the web site found in the PRINT Yellow Pages Ad. We have been tracking this movement for over a year. The issue for us is that a customer will not say they found a business person in the print product, but via the web…could they find it in another spot? Sure. But they found the URL (which is unique to the ad) in the print pages. We also are just beginning to see the social media aspects too. What we are concerned with are customers who trade solid Leads that lead to sales (Print YP calls to a business are 85% more likely to make a purchase) and customers going to what they think is better ROI via the internet…page looks are not leads that lead to sales as a general rule….will this trend change – of course.. but Print is not as dead as all the people wo make a living selling digital products only would want people to believe. I feel your statement about needs of an individual is dead on accurate. I forbid my reps to oversell a customer in the print and my operation is the number one reseller of Google in our company..over 9 million bucks a year to go with our print ad sales…customers need it all unfortunately in todays world…This is why you see the decline.. the YP companies had all money in Print, so naturally that money will move from print to digital..no where else to go…Insightful blog…
@Tom – I am running out the door but wanted to take the time to thank you for taking the time to write such an in depth comment. I would never say that print is gone, declining is the better word. You point out a lot of interesting points here. I actually have a meeting with a customer on Monday who is starting to use the website associated to print ad only product, he wants to know how we can tie our services into that. Should be a good conversation.
On a separate note, I hired a long time sales manager from the Yellowpages last week, it has been interesting to hear his perspective on how the shift was impacting how they approached customers and the need for customers to mix up their print and online marketing now when in the past online was never even a thought. Its everywhere….
Gotta run but thanks.