Occupy This! A Guest Post By Sean Stafford
I want to thank Sean Stafford from DomainGraduate.comfor allowing me to post his comment on a Facebook post I had made, consider this a guest post on my blog. I am sure there are many readers that will disagree with Seans point of view (and mine by extension) but what makes this country great is that we have the right to have opinions. On Facebook I actually had someone delete me as a friend thanks to my political views not matching theirs. Well that seems very Un-American to me.
Rather than me continue here is a great comment by Sean:
The banks and the investment houses should have been allowed to fail. They should have never received the bailouts to begin with. Who gave the money to Wall Street? The Government. The USA is in debt because of the Government, not because of Wall Street. The Government had no business giving bailout money to anyone.
The protesters should be rallying to limit the Government’s spending or impeaching the so-called “President” for pushing through the bailouts and allowing this sad state of affairs, not raising a battle cry to tax or give free health care, or free debt forgiveness.
Socialism and overspending is what got the country into this problem in the first place and socialism is the reason why the country as a whole is falling apart. Taxing the rich and having what looks to be a Phish concert in Zuccotti Park does nothing to alleviate any of the aforementioned problems. Just because the rich get taxed doesn’t mean the Government stops spending. And after the rich get taxed…what then? The middle class is then the next in line as the lower class already doesn’t pay any taxes. Even if a bunch of taxes were levied against the rich it wouldn’t pay for all the debt the USA has or even come close.
While I think a lot of CEO’s are paid wayyyyy to much, that doesn’t hurt me or anyone else in the slightest and it’s not my business to be concerned as long as that money was made in an honest manner. If someone is able to make a mint, good for them, as long as it’s done honestly. Trying to tax more money from honest working people to pay for the Government’s injustices is not only unfair, it’s criminal.
Perhaps it’s the Government who should be held accountable instead of people who work for a living and pay taxes?
Want to see what happens when bits of capitalism are removed and pieces of socialism are put in its place? Well….I guess that’s what we are currently watching unfold, and it’s damn ugly.
Thanks Sean for letting me post this spot on comment.
And a little excerpt from a comment that I think says alot as well:
Maybe people should protest the government that has made them feel dependent on it rather than independent of it.
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Bruce Marler
My time is spent evangelizing Unified Communications and WebRTC to companies looking to lead the way in enhancing the way their employees and customers communicate through making app enablement more efficient.
Along with that small task I also drive online marketing efforts with SEO and Social Media for small businesses through our efforts at LocalTek where I am Founder but just a small part of a larger team these days.
But most importantly I am a husband, Father and Step-Father of 4 GREAT kids and a wannabe hack triathlete.
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This post is as uninformed as the people you’re watching on Fox News.
Can you explain why it is uninformed, this is a typical comment from someone who actually knows they have been proven wrong by someone who used logic and rational thought in their argument and now cannot possibly argue a point back since their argument is based purely on emotional feel good comments. I am honestly ready to hear someone comment that can show that they have a well thought out comment. If someone can do a counter argument to Seans post that gives a thought out response I will be happy to post as a guest post. Let me know.
LOL, you assume a lot, it was actually a typical comment from someone tired of reading the same rhetoric about how these dumb kids should just go home and get jobs. Thanks DomainShane for your groundbreaking work as well.
Does the blame rest solely on Wall Street? No, but they are part of the problem. The larger issue is that Government and the banking industry are inextricably linked, and until that changes, nothing will. Sean conveniently ignores that Washington DC, along with dozens of cities around the world are currently “occupied,” and fails to grasp that the absurd pay received by CEOs is damaging in that it is a function of this larger problem. “As long as that money was made in an honest manner?” Sean, that’s the whole point.
Are many of these protesters relatively clueless kids just looking for a good time? Yeah, probably, but so what? A lot of them are not, in spite of how the media would have them portrayed. I have a job, and don’t have any time to join in, but that doesn’t mean I can’t respect the fact that they are advocating for change. If you are against OWS, then what are you for? The status quo? Do you honestly think our government is going to do what’s best for the American people when they have proven time and again that their priorities lie with those who fund their reelection campaigns? Do you think that Wall Street will stop driving dump trucks through the loopholes that they will continue to ensure remain? Give me a break. The only way that the election in 2012 will have any significance at all is if there is a legitimate backdrop of civil unrest.
Talk about “emotional feel good comments” – try removing the sign that that poor girl’s miserable parents have her holding if you’re trying to make a well-reasoned argument. Impeach “the so-called President?” Please tell me that you and Sean are “birthers” so that I can just block this from my Domaining feed altogether.
tax the rich and stop the government spending – not either one! Who shall pay for the shit – the poor? The government has nothing to pay but spends far too much. Only the rich are able to pay for it. This is just a matter of fact!
Frank, thanks for the post and follow up, but you’ve said literally nothing much like your “Occupy” cohorts. So to set your blatant falsities straight, I’ve not ignored anything so you need cut the endless rhetoric of unsubstantiated and unfounded remarks. If you have something factual to say please say it. My post is about the “Occupy” movement so I don’t know how I could be “conveniently ignoring” it and also be giving a full post about it all at the same time. Again, “emotional” comments do nothing and have no substance but I’ll give you a reply none-the-less.
You want to place blame on “the absurd pay received by CEOs”. Why? Let’s call a spade a spade. You’re jealous of people who have worked hard work for a living and make lots of money and now you want to punish them by taxing them more. Some people are enjoying prosperity right now and some other people don’t have that same prosperity, that’s true. But do you really think it’s a good idea to steal MORE money from those who have it and give it to those who don’t? This isn’t a common day Robin Hood, it’s thievery. It’s also dangerous and here’s why:
Regardless of what you actually believe, even if you tax the CEO’s, the top 1%, etc…that’s not going to cover the governments debt. It won’t even come close. So guess who gets hit next? The Middle class. Mark my words, the Middle Class is going to get nailed with higher taxes than it has ever seen and it’s because the Government, not Wall Street, can’t close it’s purse strings. This “tax” the rich is going to be like Republican economics — it’s going to trickle down.
Wall Street is a big problem and should be punished heavily, but the biggest problem is the Government. I don’t defend Wall Street and I have as much disdain for them as any “Occupy” protester does. With the Government giving OUR HARD EARNED MONEY to Banksters, how does that means that every other CEO in any other type of market is bad? Follow the money, sir. It was taken from you and me and given to the Government. The Government then gave it to Wall Street. Instead of letting Wall Street deal with their own losses in true Capitalistic form, Socialism was brought in and nationalized the banks and the investment houses. This has nothing to do with the pay of a CEO from Ford or any other company that didn’t take bailout money.
Be completely honest, sir. Instead of placing the blame where the blame is due you would rather blame CEO’s because you believe you can get a “pound of flesh” from them since you and I already know you’re not going to get a pound of flesh from the Government.
And again, any loopholes that exist are from the Government and are SOLELY the responsibility of the Government. Government makes the regulation and the Government enforces it. If the Government is the one greasing the palms of Wall Street why do you think Wall Street would have any reason not to utilize loop holes? Place blame where it is due. The Government caused this mess and there’s no denying it. Every time the Government makes a loophole and doesn’t close it, it’s exploited by every type and manner of person – from CEO’s all the way down to even the guy on the street.
And where in the World did you come up with the Birther comment? Another unfounded, unsubstantiated claim from another person (you, Frank) who has absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Maybe Obama was born here, maybe he wasn’t. Frankly, I don’t care and that’s not even an issue now. What I do care about is that he unilaterally instigated war on Libya without permission of Congress, he’s brought in Socialism with this new illegal health care that is supposed to be implemented soon, bankrupted the United States with a stimulus that did not work, KILLS AMERICAN CITIZENS and completely ignores due process, and a whole slew of other hot-button issues. No sir, he is not a President, he’s a tyrant and a despot.
Well, I guess you think the government control Wall St., so they are the one to blame. The reality is that Wall St. own the Government…
I said nothing about taxing the rich, nor about being upset with how much money top CEOs make. I don’t care and am not after “a pound of flesh.” What I commented on was the fact that these high salaries are a function of a larger problem, and one that you seem to agree with – that banks and the government sleep in the same bed. It has corrupted our political system and given rise to a very unhealthy (economically) distribution of wealth – regardless of whether or not you deem that fair. This is actually a central theme of the Occupy protests. Yes, you did write about the Occupy movement, what you ignored is how it has spread around the globe and how maybe that signifies that it is about something larger than the US financial industry.
I understand that many of the Occupy participants have taken up the flag of tax the rich, and I do think that’s misguided as well, but if you have “as much disdain for Wall Street as any Occupy protester,” then what exactly is your issue with this movement given that is the one small aspect of this protest that you have acknowledged? You clearly also understand that there is a problem that needs addressing. Can you offer suggestions for how change should be affected?
I hope that you were crying ‘socialism’ this and ‘socialism’ that when your beloved George W. was in office initiating these bailouts. I’m sure you weren’t. And every military conflict since Vietnam has been maligned by nuts on the other side of the political aisle for having been entered into unconstitutionally. It goes both ways, just get over it. He’s not getting impeached for launching airstrikes. And yes, when you call him the so-called President, and spout all of your Glenn Beck garbage, assuming that you are a “birther” is actually pretty valid.
Hello Frank.
Here’s a few of my issues with this movement. Instead of posting about it, I’ll just let you see it for yourself from every kind of perspective (or non-perspective if you want to call it that) that one can find:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IMjm4LxFa1c
(Occupy protester blaming Jews for problems- blatant racism – from an obviously educated Black woman, no less)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=wrPGoPFRUdc
(Occupy protester wants his college paid up for free because he doesn’t want to pay for it but wants one anyways)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=l3Y9CARUwio
(Another set of racist Occupy thugs)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uE2M7g_IWSE
(I don’t even know where to begin on this one. This guy would be KILLED in China for protesting. The other guys seems quite off kilter too.)
All of the above shows that there is no central theme for the movement. But it is comprised a lot of: “tax the rich,” “give me something for free,” “let’s have sex in the park,” “free health care or free school” or most recently “Zionist Jews are to blame.” I have problems with all of these. I have more examples I can post to you. It’s completely insane.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-has-more-cash-from-financial-sector-than-gop-hopefuls-combined-data-show/2011/10/18/gIQAX4rAyL_story.html?hpid=z1
(Yep, you read it right. Obama has more cash from financial sector than all GOP candidates combined.) This link is meant to show not that the Republicans are not at fault, but that Democrats share equal fault. They are on the same payroll. The Government, it seems, may be beyond repair.
And to set the record straight, I’m neither Republican or Democrat. Though I’m definitely considered Conservative, but I identify with neither party. And I thought Bush was a complete idiot.
And to answer your question honestly, this is what I’m fore: I’m for personal responsibility and paying one’s own bills. I’m for helping the little guy, but not in a way that makes me feel forced or taken advantage of. If I end up becoming part of the top 1%, I definitely don’t want racist thugs thinking I’m their personal piggy bank that they think they can tax to death just because they don’t want to pay for their own college but want to receive benefit of said college. I want the Government, for the most part, to leave me alone.
Banks and government do sleep in the same bed. Here’s an illustration I think we could both agree on:
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2011/09/Fed%20octopus.jpg
This depiction is said to have been drawn one year before the Federal reserve was put into place. Circa 1912.
To start with affecting real change, should the Government in it’s current form be salvaged, more than likely a Constitutional convention is going to have to be called. The Federal reserve would have to be abolished, the changing of the 17th amendment to give back the rights of representation to the individual States, a balanced budget amendment to be put into place, and a hard STOP for these crazy, endless wars. All of them.
Should the above not be able to be accomplished, a breaking up to these united States into smaller countries would be a last ditch solution to save liberty for all. A more progressive, liberal section of the US to be carved away along with the more conservative, traditional section. The two would go their separate ways in a peaceful and friendly manner very much like Czechoslovakia.
In a few short years of self rule we would see more personal responsibility from each side because each respective nation would have their Government legislatures and representatives closer to home which would mean that the people, no matter where they are located, would have closer access to those lawmakers. The closer those lawmakers are to home, the more people who can get their hands on them. If your constituents have to go 2K miles to get access to you…you’re probably not scared. But if they only have to go 2 miles, you may make decisions more befitting of your constituents.
Having at least two new nations would allow each to more closely cater to the whims of each group as well. If we have two groups that are hard-lined Left and Right, I see little point of trying to hold them together when they are now constantly tearing at the seams. There’s very little middle ground anymore. People are dug in. This doesn’t mean the Constitution wouldn’t be in effect, but that each new nation would then just interpret it as they believed. This would be true liberty for all. Not constant comprise which now usually leaves everyone unhappy.